Tell us a bit about yourselves – when and where you were born, what brought you to Cleveland , where you lived and went to school?
Judge Capers: Alice is the youngest [born in 1916] and I'm the third oldest [born in 1913] child of Mr. Edward E. Murrell and Mrs. Dolly Ferguson Murrell. Both of them were teachers, graduates of the state normal school for colored people in Frankfort , Kentucky , which is now Kentucky State University .
In 1919 our father brought his five children [Edward F., William H., Eugenia M. (Jean), Dolly A., Alice N.) to Cleveland , Ohio from Danville , Kentucky so that we could get the benefit of an integrated education. He'd had a segregated education in Kentucky , and my mother had had an integrated education in Ohio .
When we came to Cleveland in 1919 it was a different community than it is today…as far as the people and as far as the educational, social and technical environment.
When we moved here we located at 59 th and Central Avenue in a home our father bought.
You grew up during the Depression. How do you think that shaped the women you are today? Or did it?
Mrs. Rose: I was in high school when the Depression started. It probably did affect me, but I don't remember being affected by it. Our parents had the means to take care of us.
Judge Capers: It didn't really affect our family. We'd always been provided what we needed, not what we wanted, and that made a difference when the Depression came along. We'd always lived within our father's income.
Judge Capers, what led you into law and then politics.
I went to Western Reserve [on an athletic/scholastic scholarship] and majored in physical education. I taught several years: elementary and high school health and physical education. I started law school in 1941.
I was elected to City Council in 1949, after I'd run three times.
I don't really like the term politics. It's government service because as an elected official you are serving the people.
Mrs. Rose, you went into teaching, right?
When I graduated from high school in 1932, I went to Schauffler College and got a degree in Social Work. There were students from all over the world there. But I never used the social work degree. I'd married [Paul Rose] and stayed at home with our three children. When they got older, I went back Western Reserve University and got a master's degree in education so I could teach in the public school system. I taught for 14 years.
Both of you choose service professions. Did your siblings also go that route?
Judge Capers: Yes. Our older brother studied pre-med and later worked for the courts. Our other brother was going into medicine, too, but he had an illness that prevented that, so he became one of Cleveland 's first ambulance drivers. He died in 1938.
Mrs. Rose: Our other sister went to John Hay and took business courses. Her last job was with the Jewish Family Services.
Judge Capers, you helped found several women's organizations, including the Ohio State Council of Democratic Women. Why did you feel the need to do that?
Judge Capers: I studied government in high school, because I took civics. But civics was an elective subject, so everyone didn't take it…Helping start the Ohio State Council of Democratic Women was to teach women about government, not politics. I knew that women needed to know about government, and the way to know about government is to study it. And I felt that if people knew about and understood government they would be able to serve in government.
Why did you go from teaching into politics?
Judge Capers: I didn't go into politics. I went into the study of government. Becoming an elected official wasn't because of politics, it was because of my study of government. Politics is the science of government. Any science has to be studied and I'd been interested in [how government worked] since I was 16, and joined an organization through our Presbyterian church for young people that studied government and how it worked.
What about you, Mrs. Rose, were you ever interested in an elective office?
Mrs. Rose: [Laughs] No. But I supported her. Our boys helped her campaign. Our father printed her campaign materials and her campaign newspaper and I helped him do that because I knew a lot about printing.
The whole family was supportive…always.
Judge Capers: Always.
You are both nonagenarians and you are both in good health. What were you doing “back in the day” to get you to this point so healthy?
Judge Capers: A lot of our good health is due to our father. He was athletic and sinewy. And we were always active: it was part of our natural routine. We walked to the park. Our father taught all of us to swim. We played volleyball and basket ball and tennis*….Our father played tennis at least until he was 90. [Judge Capers was a citywide tennis and basketball star.]
Mrs. Rose: And we ate well.
Are your brothers and sister as long lived as you?
Judge Capers: Oh no…
Mrs. Rose …we are the last two.
What do you do now to stay so healthy?
Mrs. Rose Jean is always walking at work, from court to court. [Chuckles] Me, I'm upright. I think a lot of my activities now revolve around taking care of my husband, Paul, who was the athletic administrator in the Cleveland Public Schools. He's 96.
Judge Capers: Yes, I do a lot of walking. [laughs] I know the building have stayed the same, but it feels like they have gotten bigger.
Since I had a stroke 2 ½ years ago, I've been wearing orthopedic shoes. Before that, it was high heels.
And I think both of us have good attitudes about our health. We got that from our parents, and family, growing up. Everything we did, we did as a family.
Mrs. Rose Our father always said: One finger by itself, is not very strong. But the minute you combine fingers into a hand, then you have power. And for us, the family has always been our hand.
What are the activities and organizations you are both involved with…and why those activities and organizations?
Mrs. Rose I'm very active in my church, the First Presbyterian Church of East Cleveland. Our family has been a member there since the early 1940s. We were the first Negro family to join the church.
And I'm involved in the community through the Ludlow Community Association. We became members about 50 years ago when we moved to the area.
I was active in the Presbytery of the Western Reserve , but when Paul became ill, I had to let some things go.
Judge Capers: I'm a charter member of Holy Trinity Baptist Church . I've been a member right around 60 years. And I'm a member of the Women's City Club and City Club of Cleveland…When the National Women's Political Caucus formed, I was a charter member of the local chapter…A lot of my organizational memberships date back to 1935. I don't just join, I stay.
And other activities. Well, I go to work every day.
You have both been very active in your community. Why do you think it's important, at any age, to stay involved with your community ?
Judge Capers: Knowing what the community is doing helps me to live, to do, to give back. But in order to know what's going on and what's needed, you have to be a part of the community.
Mrs. Rose: When you are involved in the community you are helping keep the community strong. You can't just ‘join' a group like the Ludlow Community Association and then let that be it. For something like the association to work, it needs continual work, continual involvement.
The association didn't start out to become a national model for community integration, but that's what happened.
At 90-plus, are either of you doing what you thought you'd be doing when you retired?
Judge Capers: I retired from being a judge [at 70], but that's because of the state law. I'm still working as a lawyer. Right now I'm focused on elder law because of the poor treatment of the elderly right now.
Mrs. Rose: I stopped teaching 14 years ago to look after my father. And to answer your question, I'm probably not doing what I thought I'd be doing. When I stopped teaching my husband was active, but times change, things change, and you do what you have to do.
What do you think successful aging is?
Mrs. Rose: Keep going…keep doing what you do.
Judge Capers: Aging is just another plane of living. You have to learn as you grow “up” and you have to learn as you grow “down.”
Right now there is a real ‘attitude' with reference to aging. The general attitude in all groups of people, with reference to aging, used to be that you knew more and were a sage and had made contributions so you were supposed to be more highly respected than you were when you were younger. Now it's just the opposite.
And it used to be, too, that the older generation's responsibility was to help the younger generation come along. And that's changed too.
Now the idea is when you are older you are supposed to be pushed aside and act like you are frail and that you don't know anything and that your opinion's don't amount to anything.
But that's hardly how you have aged.
Judge Capers: No, because I was different from the beginning. And that was because of the parents I had. I was well-grounded growing up. You don't use sand for a foundation if you want a building to stand…so you can't compare my parents to the average parents.
I've changed my concept of aging…I didn't have one until I had the stroke. When I had the stroke [TIA], I had a whole lot of time to think. And when I learned what the reason for the stroke was – how it affected the nervous system – I began to understand what aging was, what was happening.
So much of what is done in medicine today is on the front page of the paper as progress, but it's not. It's definitely to the advantage of those who are making all the medical breakthroughs to think of them as ‘progress' but if you apply the concept of the greatest good for the greatest number of people, well, then is it ‘progress'?
Back to the top |
