Tell me about your early life. When and where you were born and raised; what did your mother and father do; where were you in the sibling line-up and what were you like as a child?
I was born June 9, 1925 and I'm the second of two boys. I'm a Cleveland west side Irish kid. I grew up in St. Rose's Parish. Most of my life, before I went off to service, I lived in the area between West. Blvd and W. 117th Street, with the northern boundary being Clifton Boulevard and the south boundary was Baltic Road.
[Chuckles]Today I can look out my condo window and see this neighborhood.
I was about 4 ½ years younger than my brother and we both attended St. Rose [Elementary] School and West High School. It was difficult for me following him through school. Every time I'd walk into class they'd say: “Oh, you're Charles O'Donnell's brother. We expect big things of you.” I didn't like that.
In school, I was probably a bit of a smart aleck, the one you could count on to disrupt the class by saying something or making a wise crack. But I had good grades, too, and I was good at sports, playing basketball in junior high and football in high school. In high school, I didn't really date a lot. [Chuckles] I was more interested in football.
My dad was east side Irish and my mother was west side Irish. My dad was a dentist and back in the ‘30s, when I was growing up, it wasn't like it is today because people couldn't pay their dentists… My dad's big thrill in life would be to sit back with a great book and read it, then have people come in and discuss it. My mother's was to have a party, get the neighbors in and have drinks. There was a definite dichotomy there.
You came of age in the late-1930s, during the Depression and just prior to the outbreak of WWII. How did that impact you and your family? And how do you think coming of age then shaped the person you are today?
Those two events didn't just shape me and my family; they tremendously shaped a whole generation. We learned to save. Regardless of how little you might earn, we were taught to save something and our priorities aren't for the latest fashion or fad. Back then, holiday gifts were sweaters, underwear and sox. Things we needed were our gifts.
Families were close knit and so were neighborhoods. Everyone was trying to make a living in tough times. FDR didn't take us out of the Depression, the guy with the mustache over in Germany [Adolph Hitler] took us out of the Depression because the US, in the late 1930's was becoming the arsenal for the European countries that were already at war with Germany.
What were you doing the afternoon of December 7th , 1941– when Pearl Harbor was bombed?
Like most people, I can tell you exactly where I was. I was at the Homestead Theater, just past W. 117 th Street on Detroit Avenue. As we came out of the theater we heard people talking about Pearl Harbor. When I got home, my folks were listening to the radio, and newsboys were walking up and down the street selling copies of the “extras” which had been quickly published and distributed. We had been sucker punched and were being whipped all over the Pacific.
In late1942, my senior year in high school, I decided I wanted to join the military. I was 17 ½, and asked my parents to sign the paperwork so I could join. I still had a semester to go in high school, so they wouldn't do it. My older brother, who was already in the Navy, told me about a Navy Reserve program in which one could enlist if you were in college.
There were two nearby colleges which would take someone who hadn't graduated from high school if their grades were good. One was Adelbert College (now CWRU) and the other was Kenyon College. A friend took me to Kenyon. I brought my transcripts and was interviewed. They enrolled me in January 1943. Then I went to the Navy Recruiting Office and enrolled in the V-1 Program.
It's so hard for people nowadays to understand that kind of thing – that kind of enthusiasm for going to war – but in those days there was a lot of patriotism in America.
Where were you posted and what did you do?
I spent one semester at Kenyon College, taking regular college courses. On July 1, 1943, when I'd just turned 18, my V-1 unit was activated and I was ordered, as an Apprentice Seaman, to report at Ohio Wesleyan for four semesters. After that, I was sent to the Harvard Business School, for a year, as a Mid-Shipman and then an Ensign.
Why Harvard?
The Navy's long-range wartime strategy called for a very protracted war in the Pacific, so they were creating and training a reservoir of officer material that could man the ships that would fight that battle. I was one of those trainees and I was sent to Harvard because that's where they had their Supply Corps Program.
I was commissioned in 1945, just as I'd turned 20, as a supply and disbursing officer and sent to the Brooklyn Navy Yard where I was in charge of outfitting a brand new destroyer. Soon there would be about 350 men on the destroyer and my job was getting all the supplies on board and making sure everyone got paid.
We christened the ship, the Arnold J. Isbell, in January of 1946 and then we were sent down to the Guantanamo Bay area [at the eastern tip of Cuba] for a “shakedown cruise” to test everything aboard the ship. After that, in August, 1946, I was sent to the Great Lakes Discharge Center and discharged. After the A Bomb they didn't need all that manpower reserve.
After you got out of the Navy, did you go right back to college?
In the early summer of 1946, I received letters from Harvard and Kenyon advising me, that as a veteran, I'd have priority for enrolling in September if I applied right then . As I didn't know when I'd be getting out, I didn't apply. When I found out, in August, that I'd be discharged, I applied to Harvard, but they said I couldn't start till February of 1947.
Then I applied to Kenyon, but they said I'd been too late. So I went to the football coach, Pat Biscini, and we got to talking about my football playing in 1943 and 1944 at Ohio Wesleyan. When he asked if I was coming to Kenyon, I told him I wanted to, but that I couldn't get in that September. He left the room for about 20 minutes and when he came back he told me I was in. The problem had been that there was no room for me in the dorms, and he'd called his wife to see if I could stay with them, and she'd said sure. So I was in.
As the semester was ending in January 1947, I went into the registrar to see if I had enough credits to graduate based on credits from Ohio Wesleyan, Harvard and my earlier time at Kenyon. After a quick review, He said: Go to Harvard and if you pass the first semester, we'll graduate you in June of 1947. So, I went to Harvard in February to complete the work needed for my MBA. I went back to Kenyon to graduate with the Class of 1947
In 1947, with your Harvard MBA in hand, you went to work for the Steel Improvement & Forge Company – SIFCO. What led you into the metal forging business?
At Harvard Business School, many Fortune 500 companies were interviewing and recruiting. Several local Alumni Groups from various cities would send info about job openings. SIFCO sent info about their company, which had about 100 employees then. They were looking for a sales and marketing person. Since SIFCO was in Cleveland, and made a good offer – $225 a month! – I took it because it meant I'd be able to come home to Cleveland.
In May of 1966, you joined the Peace Corps, and became the Country Director for Korea. From the corporate world – because by then you worked at Booz, Allen & Hamilton and Atlas Alloys – to a Peace Corps country director, was a leap. How and why did you make it?
Some important things had happened in my life around that time that made me realize that there was more to life than what I was experiencing.
I'd participated in a cursillo en Christanda (a short course in Christianity). It had a really powerful impact on me. It gave me a sense of heightened spirituality that I'd never had just being a rote-memorization Catholic. It changed my life. A little while later, I had realized that I had a problem with alcohol and had to do something about it. I went through a rehab program here in Cleveland. Lastly, my loving wife Peg, who'd prayed me into the 12-step program, died after delivering our sixth child.
All of these events brought me closer to my Higher Power. Also, they made me restless with the life I was leading.
Also at this time, I was fortunate to renew acquaintance with a long-time family friend, Ellen Patterson, who'd recently lost her husband, and whom Peg and I had both known and liked. As she was living in Detroit, we visited via a lot of phone calls and a few meetings. Soon we realized we were in love and decided to get married. We settled down in Fairview Park in the Fall of 1965.
In January of 1966, I read an article in the Catholic Universe Bulletin about a man who'd gone into the Peace Corps – not as a field volunteer but as an administrator. I was amazed. I thought all people in the Peace Corps were young people doing good things around the developing world. Ellen and I talked about Peace Corps, and she ended up saying “Well, why don't you write them a letter,” so one Monday I sent a letter, and resume to Peace Corps in Washington. In the letter I told them I only wanted to serve overseas, and wanted a salary that would enable me to take care of my family without our having to dip into our savings. I figured that they'd get back to me in a couple of months. On Thursday I got a call from Peace Corps in Washington about coming for an interview.
I went to Washington and had many interviews. It was an exciting time to learn all about a government program that I had admired for many years. When they offer me the position of Country Director for Peace Corps/Korea, both Ellen and I knew this was for us. It was a new program and was going to be small – with initially about 100 volunteers.
To get ready to go, we cross-adopted each other's kids. The judge told us it was the largest cross-adoption he'd ever done. Going over, the kids were all O'Donnell's and we have never used the term step-mother or step-father, nor step-brother or -sister.
When you went to Korea, you took 8 kids and a new wife with you. You were up to your ears in new: new wife, new family, new job, new country. How did you manage to make your personal life, your family life and your job life work?
I never segmented into all those pieces. It was just “life.”
You were in Korea for four years. I'm a former Peace Corps Volunteer, so I know most country directors stay 2 years. Why did you stay four?
When I went, I thought it would be a two year gig, but at the end of the two years, they didn't have a replacement, so Peace Corps asked me to stay another year. I talked with Ellen and the kids, and everyone agreed it would be great to spend more time in Korea, so I told Peace Corps that I'd stay, but only if they extended my assignment another two years. The reason I said two years was two of the children were sophomores, and if I extended for just one year, they'd be going back to the states for their senior year in high school, and that wasn't fair to them. But it wasn't just the kids. There were projects and programs that I'd launched during my first two years, and I wanted to see them through.
When you came back from Korea, you were Director of Administration and Finance, Acting Deputy Director and then Director of Peace Corps/ACTION. During your two years in Washington, what do you feel were your most important accomplishments?
I'd say the biggest contribution that I made was to help preserve Peace Corps in 1972. Congress came close to disbanding it by not appropriating sufficient funds for us to complete our fiscal year. The man who was most responsible for that was Otto J. Passman, the Congressman from Monroe, Louisiana. He said – and is quoted in the Congressional Record – that if he had only three minutes to live before he met his maker, and in that three minutes he could kill the Peace Corps, he'd die a happy man.
Was your plan always to come back to Cleveland after Washington?
I didn't have a plan. But, in early 1972 I was in San Paolo, Brazil, on Peace Corps business, and was at a Consular Reception, and the owner of SIFCO [Charles Smith], where I'd worked for 13 years, happened to be in San Paolo, also. He'd read, in the local paper, that I'd be there and asked if he could attend the party.
Chuck Smith and I had a great visit about old times and how the company was doing. He inquired about my plans for after Peace Corps and I told him I didn't have any…He explained that there were some changes coming at the executive level at SIFCO, and asked if I would had any interest in coming back [to SIFCO] as Executive Vice President, and he also told me that if things went well I'd be in line to become President.
With that in my pocket, when I went back to Washington, I was really able to fight the battle [with Congress] to preserve Peace Corps. I didn't have to worry about insuring my future as a government employee. I knew what I'd be doing and where I'd be going when I left.
Did you ever think of that as an incredible piece of karmic luck?
Oh yes! We have a saying in the 12-step Program: There are no coincidences; it is just our Higher Power moving anonymously.
Throughout your life, you've been a very active volunteer – sometimes in high profile positions and at others just working the line. Why do you think it's important to volunteer.
It's essential that we express our appreciation for whatever talents we were given and our love for our fellow human beings in whatever ways we can. Volunteering to help, whether you are on a board or serving in a soup kitchen, is a way to acknowledge and appreciate what you have been given. But it goes deeper than that. To get something out of life, you have to put something in.
One of the many honors you've received is the Bronze Key Award, in 1992, from the National Council on Alcohol and Drug Dependency. How did you get involved with this group?
I'm a recovering alcoholic. You never cure alcoholism, so I've been a recovering alcoholic for going on 46 years now. I've served on the Regional Council on Alcoholism and the County Board of Alcoholism. And I've served in many programs that are doing 12-step work that have helped a lot of people in town get sobered up.
But, I want to make it clear that I didn't get [the award] on my own, they gave it to both Ellen and me. She was on the Board of Recovery Resources, one of the area's best agencies.
Have you ever run for public office? With your drive, energy, and management savvy you'd have been a shoo-in.
I always thought, with my Irish smile and a political name that I'd have made a good politician.
And, yes, I did run for public office – in Fairview Park, where we lived in 1963 and 1964 – and I lost. I was very interested in education, and I ran for the school board. They were electing three people for the board. I finished fourth.
That was probably the best thing for me. Had I been elected for a four year term, I probably would never have taken the route I took.
In 1994, when you were 69 and most other people would have been thinking about kicking back, you founded O'Donnell & Associates, a consulting company for small businesses. What made you want to start a new business?
When I finally left SIFCO, people would ask me to help them with this and that, and I decided to set up a consulting firm where I could do the kind of coaching and mentoring – as a consultant – I've always done. I knew the niche I wanted to work in – smaller, family-owned companies – and the issues I wanted to work with them on – management and succession issues.
Last year, a son and daughter came into the business. Both have MBAs and one has a background in banking – mostly in loan preparation – and the other has lots of overseas business experience.
Does this mean then, at 85, that you are at least thinking about retiring?
Well, I just got a call to do some consulting from a friend who owns a business overseas. I've known him for donkey years. He said that someone wants to buy his company and he needs help with the deal.
I'll retire when I'm pushing up daisies.
You have lived, and continue to live, a full and active life. Through the years – as you became the man you are today – who were the people who had the most influence in shaping you personally, professionally and civically. In other words, who were your mentors and role models?
I'd start with my parents. They were completely different, yet strong in each of their ways. They educated me about things I've used the rest of my life…My dad was an agnostic, but the most Judaic-Christian person you could know, always taking care of people and always respectful of everyone's ethnic background. He always told us to go into business, and when we were thinking about school, he told us to go to Harvard Business School, which was only about 10 years old at the time. So, flash forward when I'm at Ohio Wesleyan and they ask me what kind of job I want when I go to mid-shipman school and the told me the Supply Corps Officers were trained at the Harvard Business School. Well, the bell went off in my head. That's where I went because of what my dad had told me about Harvard Business School, not because I wanted to be a supply officer.
From my mother I received warmth and a sense of love and of humor. Her attitude was that life was a bowl of cherries.
Two or three of the people I worked with in my first job at SIFCO were mentors, too. They taught me about ethics in business and instilled the sense of responsibility for your workers and the community.
In turn, you have mentored many people over the years. Why do you think that's important?
I don't want to sound like an evangelical-type, but when you are given certain talents from some Higher Power you don't just hoard them . I always think of giving back like this: Water flows into the Dead Sea and since it doesn't have any way to flow out, the sea becomes polluted and stagnant and lifeless – dead. But with other bodies of water, there is a way for the water to flow out. This keeps things fresh, full of life.
To give back, to be an instrument of the Lord – to fulfill that inner sense of responsibility – is something that I've always thought was important. I think that's why I was so involved with Peace Corps.
You're active, engaged, mentally on top of things and you have a great sense of humor. At 85, how do you do it? In other words, where does all that energy come from?
I make sure I'm interacting with interesting people. I never want to lose my sense of curiosity.
And I meditate. I try to take a minute or five minutes and think of my relationship to the universe and God .
[Chuckles] And every day in the afternoon, I take a nap.
Have you always been this energetic?
Yes. Most of my life I've always been a high-energy person, what you'd call a Type A person. It's only been in later years that I've been a Type B person – in other words, thinking before I commit myself to something.
You're in excellent physical condition. What are you doing – exercise-wise and diet-wise – to stay that way?
You can't just say: I want to be healthy. You have to make health a priority every day. So I work out. I took one of the bedrooms here and turned it into a workout gym. I've got a treadmill, a [stationary] bicycle, a weight bench and free weights and I've got a universal machine, too. I knew I wouldn't exercise if I had to “work” to do it – go someplace else – so I made it easy. When I get out of bed in the morning all I have to do is walk down the hall and I'm “at” the gym.
Diet-wise, I watch my diet and, since one of my sons, Michael, is the editor of the American Journal of Health Promotion , I have an inside-source on healthy eating. [Chuckles] That started early. By the time he was 11, he was reading labels and telling all of us what to eat.
What do you do in your spare time? Any hobbies or passions?
I read a lot. For entertainment I like John Grisham, Tom Clancy and Robert Ludlum. For spiritual and theological reading, I like the Cosmic Christology writers such as Judy Cannato, a Clevelander and Ilia Delio. Of course the oldies and goodies in contemplative reading are Pierre Teihard de Chardin and Thomas Merton. Sometimes the Irishman, John Dominic Crossan is interested to study from the historical perspective of Jewish and Christian religions.
And I really enjoy golf, but I'm lousy at it.
And I enjoy traveling. I have a home in Ireland, on Achill Island, in County Mayo. Achill Island is the western-most part of the European continent, and it's gorgeous . I try to go there for about 6 weeks at a time.
MythBusters is all about successful aging. So, what's your definition of successful aging?
I feel that I'm aging successfully when I'm able to maintain an interest in a variety of subjects and I'm able to participate in certain of them. I know I'm on the right track when I have more to do than I have time to do it.
If you could be remembered for only one thing you have accomplished, what would it be?
That I was a good parent, that I raised eight good kids. When all is said and done, if you've done a good job of parenting, you've helped make a good future, not just for your children and grandchildren, but for everyone's.
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